Flawed or flawless?

That is the subtitle of a new oral biography of Rudolph W. Giuliani. The book may not change the minds of readers who believe he is one or the other, but some of the insights of friends, former friends, and unforgiving foes -- most of whom were interviewed by Deborah Hart Strober and Gerald S. Strober -- are nonetheless revealing about the former mayor and about New York politics.

Some were glowing, some vitriolic. In ''Giuliani'' (John Wiley & Sons), they combine into what Mr. Strober described as ''a mixed bag.'' Here are excerpts.

Did race play a role in the 1989 election, when David N. Dinkins, a Democrat, barely defeated Mr. Giuliani to become the city's first black mayor? Mr. Dinkins suggested that was a possibility: ''How does one figure? Whatever frailties, whatever shortcomings I had were certainly not evident at that point, and whatever greatness there was in Rudy had not yet been revealed. So how come 1.9 million votes, and I win by the skin of my teeth?''

Mr. Giuliani and former Mayor Edward I. Koch are both larger than life. How did working for them compare? Henry J. Stern, the former parks commissioner, replied:

''Koch was more collegial than Giuliani, but people knew that if they disagreed with Koch they would pay a price.''

Lillian Barrios-Paoli, who also served under both mayors, was Mr. Giuliani's welfare commissioner, among other jobs. She offered another perspective. If Mr. Koch said to his advisers that he wanted to kill all 12-year-olds, she said: ''I can think of 10 people who would say, 'Please, get a life! What, are you crazy? No way!' And there'd be a big argument and at the end of the day, somebody's judgment would prevail.

''If Rudy would say, 'Let's kill 12-year-olds,' there would be deep silence in the room, and then somebody would say, 'That's brilliant!' And then somebody else would say, 'Have you thought of 13-year-olds, too?' ''

Mr. Giuliani refused to meet with a number of prominent black leaders, including the Rev. Al Sharpton. Rudy Washington, who as deputy mayor was the highest-ranking black member of the Giuliani administration, explained why:

''Rudy didn't play that game: You don't call me a racist, Al Sharpton, and then expect to meet me and work out a deal. You declare me your enemy, fine. I'm going to be your enemy.''

Mr. Giuliani's refusal to meet with certain black elected officials, even after the police shooting of Amadou Diallo, an unarmed immigrant from Guinea, angered Mr. Koch so much that, he recalled, he even decided to participate in a demonstration.

''And so -- only in New York City can this happen -- I called Al Sharpton, who was in charge of the picketing in front of Police Plaza, and I said, 'I want to get arrested. I have to get arrested early,' because I was teaching at a college near Boston, Brandeis, and it was on a Monday, the one day I went there. 'Can you arrange to get me arrested at 10 o'clock?' ''

Why was Mr. Giuliani's second term disappointing to some? Fran Reiter, a deputy mayor, said that Mr. Giuliani was not jubilant about his re-election in part because he realized that term limits made him a lame duck.

''Psychologically, it makes for a very difficult approach to governing. This weighed very, very heavily on him and influenced how he governed in that second term. He seemed to lose his passion for the big projects. He got nitpicky.''

Mr. Giuliani also was having marital problems, which he handled awkwardly. Herman Badillo, a mayoral adviser, said:

''As a matter of courtesy, you go and talk to your wife and say, 'I want a divorce.' You don't have a press conference to announce it.''

His performance on and after 9/11 redeemed him in the eyes of many people. Some politicians, including Mr. Koch, criticized Mark Green, who was seeking the Democratic mayoral nomination in 2001, when he said he could have done the job as well as Mr. Giuliani or better. In the biography, Mr. Koch said:

''Nobody could have done it better than Rudy. But I believe that many, if not most, mayors would have done it as well because that's your job. And that saved Rudy's reputation: He became Mayor for the world, and you should not take any credit away from him. But to say that what he did was unique would be wrong.''

Time may have altered Mr. Green's perspective on how he or his fellow Democrats might have performed:

''I can see some public officials overplaying the tough card, but I saw him up close during the weeks after 9/11, and he struck just the right note of toughness and compassion.''

''Would someone else -- Ruth Messinger or me or Dinkins -- have done as well because the situation required that? I couldn't, and I wouldn't, say. You don't know until it happens.''

Will Mr. Giuliani run for president? Interviewed in 2005, Mr. Sharpton said no.

''He knows that the honeymoon he's had with the media since 9/11 would be over if he ran and had to defend things that they don't now bring up.''

''It's better to live the reinvention than to have somebody move the veil and see that the wizard really isn't the wizard. So right now, he can lead all the media and the national pundits on the Yellow Brick Road. He'd better never let us get near that veil. I know what's back there; I've pierced it before.''

Suppose he runs and wins? Mr. Dinkins replied: ''Rudy as president is kind of frightening. My question would be, Will I move to Bermuda? Where will I go?''

Saikou Diallo, Amadou's father, was equivocal: ''He's a good leader, a very good leader, and very intelligent. If he changes his character, he may be a good president. But he has to change.''

Frank Luntz, Mr. Giuliani's second mayoral campaign pollster, offered another perspective on the former mayor's personality:

''No one in New York, not even Ed Koch, could equal Rudy in the phrase, 'He says what he means and means what he says.'

''That's one of the reasons he won so overwhelmingly in that election. It wasn't about policy or issues. It was about character.''